Crecen las protestas en Colombia y el presidente Iván Duque habla sobre la crisis. El demócrata Rubén Gallego y Otto Reich, quien ha trabajado con tres presidentes republicanos, hablan sobre la creencia de que a Trump le robaron la elección.
17 May 2021 – 12:00 AM EDT
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>> lets get to the point, "al
punto."the future of colombia.
protests increase as colombianscomplain about the current
government.ivan duque eight speaks with
patricia janiot about gettingout of the crisis.
>> as president, i will continueto fulfill my duties.
>> we talk about the big liewhich is that trump had the
election stolen from him.we will speak with the
democratic and republicanstrategist.
also, inflation.prices are increasing.
an expert tells us how toprevent savings from
evaporating.we speak with olga tañón.
she does something shehas never done before pick she
is here to explain.we begin now.
♪jorge: lets get to the point,
"al punto" with jorge ramos.jorge: we begin with colombia.
what began as a protest againstan increase in taxes has become
one of the most importantmovements for change in the last
few decades within that country.there are many people who have
been disappeared or who areinjured.
some have died.president ivan duque spoke with
patricia janiot about how to getout of the crisis.
she asks him directly.>> president duque eight, good
morning, welcome to theinterview with univision.
thank you for your time.lets begin by talking about
this morning.it has been 16 days, and there
is not a possible solution.my question for you is, why have
negotiations not begun yet?>> before anything, angela
patricia, i want to explain thenational government has sent the
national committee theirwillingness to enter into
negotiations.that letter was sent days ago.
there were many invitations.we had a meeting with the
national committee.the u.n. and the catholic church
participated.we have said we are willing to
take on the construction of anagreement within the space of
negotiations.>> speaking of public safety,
there are accusations againstthe police force, especially in
buga where they have saidmilitary forces have used
helicopters with red cross logosand they have landed at
educational institutes, whichgoes against international laws.
why are red cross logos beingused on helicopters that the
military is using?>> i think it is important to
talk about this because we havealways worked under the
constitution and law to maintainpublic safety.
in colombia, public safety has-- abides five principles of
decentralization -- abides byprinciples of decentralization.
mayors and governors and thepresident handle public safety
for the country.we have always seen the police
force try to protect humanrights and the rights of the
citizenry.when there are cases against the
constitution or the law, actionis taken immediately with the
help of the attorney generalsoffice.
the truth is that fortransportation of medicine or
humanitarian material, protocolsare followed.
when there have been medicalmissions that have been helped
by the military or the police,it is done following those
protocols strictly.>> my question was regarding a
red cross helicopter that landedat an educational institution.
is it true this happened?you saw this.
there were logos of thered cross being used.
are military operations beingdone through educational
institutes?>> you cannot use red cross
logos in military operations.that is not allowed.
that is not allowed byinternational law or in
colombia.>> but the images came out.
>> we are investigating, tryingto figure out if medical
personnel was being transportedor medical materials were being
transported.i asked for transparency into
the investigation.>> do you think the leaders of
the committees negotiating withthe government represent the
protesters on the street?>> i think there is a little bit
of everything.i think we need to see things
with a great deal of clarity.there are people protesting in
the streets peacefully.there are parts of the
population that have beenaffected in terms of
opportunities and jobavailability.
we have to listen and findsolutions.
there is a portion that identifywith this national committee.
>> i am told it would help ifyou, as the head of government,
were to acknowledge the abusescommitted by tens of police
officers.you have said there are 62
investigations currently againstpublic safety officers.
and over 40 people have beenkilled.
are you willing to recognizeabuses by police officers?
>> angela patricia, i think itis important to point out that
we have always done this.whenever there have been acts
that go beyond the constitutionor the law, we have always
condemned them.we have always sought quitck
action from the attorneygeneral.
colombians need to rejectviolence categorically
regardless of where it comesfrom.
just as the conduct of anypublic officer that goes against
the constitution needs to beinvestigated, it is also
important be investigations interms of the acts of violence
against public safety officers.>> can you acknowledge this
explicitly?>> we have always done this,
angela patricia.>> will you do it now?
>> anytime a public officerdoes something against the
constitution, we have condemnedit.
anything that goes against theconstitution or the law is
always categorically rejected.>> what can you say about
civilians who fired shots in thestreets?
>> let me answer that questionfirst.
i want to make this clear.we have a police force that year
after year handles over 30million cases.
aarere there abuses?yes, that has happened.
those abuses are punished.we seek an institutional
zero-tolerance.i say this clearly.
there is zero tolerance towardsany conduct that goes against
the constitution or the law.regarding your question about
civilians, in this country, nocivilian is authorized to have a
firearm on the streets and touse it against another
colombian.i am and always have been a
defender of a monopoly onfirearms in this country.
the administration that hastaken the most restrictive
measures against firearms incolombia has been my
administration.so, it is very important that in
guaranteeing security and orderthe police when required in the
military force guarantee justthat, that no colombian will
need to or should take out afirearm and use it against
another citizen.>> i have an example.
if there is a small businessperson in a city where vandals
are looting, and that smallbusiness person has a weapon, a
firearm, and people are cominginto loot his business, what
should he do?>> that is not a question for me
to respond to, hypotheticalsituations but colombian law
specifies what legitimatedefense is.
but that is also subject toinvestigations and processes an
analysis to what may havehappened.
according to the penal code incolombia.
it is not about what i think.>> but business people are
saying the country is being runby vandals in certain cities and
private property is beinginvaded and destroyed and that
no one is being arrested.that is why i am asking you,
president.>> quite the contrary.
here we have police officerslooking for the interests of the
economy of people --colombianpeople.
we have seen vandalism.public safety forces are there
to defend citizens according totheir protocols.
we are not talking about carteblanche allowing people to take
out their weapons and facepeople on the streets.
legitimate defense exists and itis regulated by the colombian
law.>> when we return, what else did
ivan duque tell patricia janiot?the second part of the interview
.what is the future of the
republican party?now to "al punto" with
jorge: and now, the big lie.the big lie promoted by donald
trump is that he won the lastpresidential election and fraud
got joe biden the white house.congressperson liz cheney was
stripped of her leadership rolesin congress but she did not
remain silent.>> i think it is an indication
of where the republican partyis.
and i think the party is a placewe have to bring it back from.
we have to get back to aposition where we are a party
that can fight for conservativeprinciples, that can fight for
substance.we cannot be dragged backwards
by the very dangerous lies of aformer president.
jorge: that is whatcongresswoman liz cheney said.
what trump is saying is a lie.in the last presidential
election, joe biden got 306electoral votes and trump lost.
that is a fact.somebody fighting against this
is arizona congressman rubengallego.
thank you for being here.tell us what the big lie is and
why trump insists on repeatingit?
>> the big lie is that trump wonthe election and there was
electoral fraud and he should bethe president and not president
biden.the problem we have with this is
what is happening is it makespolitics harder for us.
when i try to talk to my friendswho are republican, they say
that trump should be presidentand they do not want to work
with democrats and work for thecountry.
unfortunately, there are manypeople like this who lived in
latino districts who are sayingthis.
they are aiding the big lie.jorge: one of the concerns i saw
any reuters poll is that six to5% of republicans believe donald
trump -- 65% of her republicansbelieve donald trump won the
last election.how does this affect democracy
in the united states?>> it makes democracy more
difficult if people think we donot have elections that are
legitimate, then we will havemore people will not be part of
our political system or we willfind violence has occurred on
january 6.that is why it is important
politicians, republicans, andcongresspeople not aid in the
big lie.we have congress people human
and garcia who voted to rejectthe was also the election.
so, they are aiding the big liewhen they go on these radio
shows and speak in favor of thebig lie.
jorge: can you tell us what ishappening in arizona?
republicans want a recount,despite the fact that elections
occurred in novemberof last year.
they are still trying to recountthe votes.
have they found somethingstrange yet?
>> no, they have not.we have had three recounts in
arizona.and, for example, our election
system, especially in maricopacounty, the party that is
responsible for the recount isthe republican party.
the county republicans saidthere was no fraud.
so then, they did another audit.now what is happening is the
republican party with money thatwe dont know where it came from
is trying once again to push thebig lie.
jorge: one last question.do you think donald trump may
try to run as a presidentialcandidate in 2024?
i dont understand whyrepublicans are so afraid of
trump.>> i think he will run again.
i think they fear him becausethey dont know how to exist
without donald trump.at the same time, they know that
if donald trump does not want torun as a republican, he can
start a third party and thenrepublicans will not be in
power.so, that is why this party is
the party of following onepersonality.
they are like the parent east us-- parinistas.
it is not the party of goodideas.
it is now simply the party oftrump.
jorge: congressman ruben gulleygoes, thank you for speaking
with us.that is the democratic point of
view.now, i want to hear the
republican perspective.the ambassador worked under the
reagan administration as well asboth presidents bush.
thank you for being here on theshow with us.
let me begin by asking youopenly, why are there somebody
republicans who believe in a biglie that trump won the last
presidential election, somethingthat is completely false?
whats i do not believe a lot ofpeople think it was a lie or
that many people think therewere many strange things that
occurred in many states.there are states where recounts
are going on now like arizona.but i dont think the majority
of the party is following a biglie.
i think what party leadershipwants to do is leave behind what
happened last year and looktoward the future.
but of course, the democratswant to keep the debate open.
jorge: but do you thinkpresident trump won the last
election?the official results say
something different.>> no, i do not think trump won
the election.i think trump lost the election.
frankly, i was surprised by thenumber of votes he got
considering he had all of thepress against him.
nobody was reporting what trumpwas saying.
they were only reporting whatthe democratic party said.
trump almost won.40,000 votes in three states
would have given trump thepresidency again.
jorge: do you think therepublican party, your party,
has been hijacked by donaldtrump?
that people who go againstdonald trump are completely left
what happened with liz cheneywas an internal conflict.
there are polls.i saw a pool today by a group of
republicans who are not in favorof trump that shows that 44% of
republicans support trump.considering that in november he
had over 90%, if i not mistaken,of republican votes, it means
that his approval within theparty has dropped considerably.
but trump did not just win theelection in 2016 just because of
republican votes.he won because he had a number
of democrats and independentssupporting him.
jorge: you worked with threepresidents, reagan and both
presidents bush, who tried toget the latino vote and did so
successfully.do you think with president
donald trump there has been abacksliding and now many people
think the republican party is aparty that supported a racist?
>> no, on the contrary.there were many states with a
democratic majority that votedfor trump in 2020 that had not
in 2016.it is very interesting.
it is being studied by experts.trump did much better with the
latino vote than anticipated orhe did in 2016.
jorge: thank you for being onthe program.
in just a moment, patriciajaniot continues the interview
with ivan duque, the presidentof colombia.
>> the country is at astandstill.
people are saying you have lostcontrol.
have you thought aboutresigning?
jorge: in just a few moments,this question is posed to
president ivan duque.also, inflation in the unitedto♪
jorge: we returned to the secondpart of the interview my
colleague patricia janiotconnected with president of
colombia ivan duque.she asked if he was willing to
resign as a result of all theviolence that has occurred in
his country in the last fewdays.
>> president, there is analarming number of people who
have been disappeared duringthese protests.
one would be too many.there are 168 people who cannot
be found, people havedisappeared.
there are organizations thatfollow these topics that speak
of over 500 who havedisappeared.
what official information do youhave?
this is terrible.>> there is something very
important here.that is a clear instruction, not
just from me, but from all localauthorities, and that is
collaboration so the attorneygeneral which is responsible in
clearing up these things do soquickly.
two days ago, the attorneygenerals office issued a report
that consolidated information.it says there was no accusation
regarding a forceddisappearance.
having said this, there arepeople who are currently being
looked for.what has been said is that when
information is receivedregarding people who are
allegedly missing, there aremany people that have been
found.but i agree.
there cannot be any tolerance orpatience regarding this topic.
this topic needs to be dealtwith quickly.
what we need to do is contributeall the possible information.
and the attorney generalsoffice in its independence needs
to make public its results.>> after alberto, now claudia is
leaving your administration inthe middle of what is happening
in your country.is she leaving because of how
she responded to internationalcriticism?
>> claudia bloom had aconversation with me that was
very frank.she expressed to me that she
decided, she had a process inplace, because of her health
conditions, she did not feel shecould continue to face all of
these circumstances.and she considered that her role
had been fulfilled.i respect her decision.
not only do i respect it, i saidto her that she could always
count on my gratitude.and we will be appointing a new
person in the next few days.i also think, and it is very
important to highlight this,that we have seen systematic
spread of disinformation.for instance, to say that
president ivan duque hascommitted genocide.
but in my entire life, i havenever shot a weapon toward
another human being.i have never hurt another human
being in my life.what i have always done in my
political career is respect ofthe people.
i have defended ideas andrespecting others.
i have denounced violence in allforms.
what we have seen in the lastfew days is escalation of
messages that say that thecolombian government is
dictatorial is a light.this is a government that has
been trying to respect humanrights to the fullest extent.
we need to address thisinformation that has damaged our
country.>> it is said the chancellor
distributed information inenglish that blamed, among
others, nicolas maduro,president of venezuela, of
paying people to go into thestreets and commit violence.
>> i dont participate in net.lets speak frankly.
we have a phenomenon of peacefulprotests that are respected.
we also have vandalism and lowlevel urban terrorism that we
need to face.we also have blockades, many of
which have been induced.and there is evidence of people
who have links to criminalorganizations.
we need to take action on that.>> do you have information that
they are behind the protests?>> i would appreciate it if you
would let me finish.there are political interests
here to generate chaos and todestabilize.
that is nothing new.i will not address who is doing
it, who is not.clearly, we have seen in many
occasions, particularlyregarding the pressure from
different parts of the world,the participation of outside
parties such as in the case ofvenezuela.
but we cannot generalize.there have been cases.
have we seen influence incertain cases?
yes, we have.i am not here to speak about
politics.im talking about the phenomenon
we as a country need to face.these are people who peacefully
protests to address theirconcerns.
secondly, handle any contactthat goes against a lot but
always adhering to human rights.>> it was said that 49
foreigners were identifiedparticipating in violent acts.
do you know who they are?>> there has been a study from
the attorney generals office.they have collaborated with
immigration authorities incolombia.
we have always said this is acountry that has shown the world
generosity to address theimmigration crisis.
but any immigrant who is incolombia who is breaking the law
will not just be deported, butthey will also face the
consequences of the law.yes, we have found foreigners.
we found some venezuelans.we found people from ecuador.
what we are doing with theattorney generals office is not
to segregate or to generatexenophobic feelings.
criminality is not measured bynationality.
whoever is in colombia as amigrant, legal or not, who is
participating in these acts willeither be deported or face the
consequences of the law.>> the minister of defense
yesterday said in the countrythere were 80 blockades.
there is not enough food beingdelivered.
garbage is not being collected.several police stations have
been destroyed, particularly inimportant cities.
the country is at a standstill.many people say you have lost
control.have you considered resigning?
>> look, angela patricia, i wantto be very clear.
this is a legitimate government.this is a government that was
elected with the greatest numberof voters in the history of our
country.we have always followed the
constitution and the law.we have dealt with all of the
challenges such as the pandemicwith determination and with a
conviction to serve thecolombian people.
we are facing a phenomenon thathas occurred in other times in
our countrys history.we need to deal with it within
the constitution and the law,but understanding that there are
people trying to generatecomplications to create lethal
conditions.we are working in the regions of
our country with localauthorities without a doubt.
without a doubt, here and inmany places, there have been
blockades that are systematicand have a background to affect
the colombian people, to affectthe distribution of food.
that is why i will continuefulfilling my duties.
>> the last question, president.several times, you have been
characterized as a puppet offormer president oribe.
>> people say duque needs to bepushed out of office.
>> that is why public forceswill continue to fulfill their
duties.>> the last question, president.
you have been characterized as apuppet of uribe.
uribe referred to the regime.>> people say we need to get rid
of duque or that he is a puppetin the electoral process.
>> how do you feel uribe isreferred to as a puppet?
>> with all due respect, i havenever been anybodys puppet.
i am the president of colombia.i serve the colombian people.
i have never believed inpolitics that come from
pressure.we face the biggest migrant
crisis in the continent.we have had to face the
pandemic.>> the interest we are paying is
very low.more dollars are being printed.
with the stimulus, the worst ofall is and please do not want to
return to work.that has created a monster of
inflation.jorge: what happens when
somebody wants to buy a house?prices are through the roof.
what happened?>> what happened is there is
very little inventory,particularly in places like
california and florida.they are looking for properties
and they are not there.interest rates being solo makes
it so people want to buy.sellers are taking advantage of
that.prices have increased.
they are at a place where peoplecannot buy.
>> this is not the time to buy ahouse?
>> literally, it is not.but it is for sellers.
many people want to have theamerican dream and continue to
look for properties.that is why they are willing to
pay hundreds of thousands ofdollars more than what a
property is worth.>> we are talking about the
price of gasoline because ofwhat happened with the pipeline,
but that is improving now.other than that, why are gas
prices rising?>> since the biden
administration is not allowingfor more oil to be drilled in
the united states, we have toget it from somewhere else.
also, as we come out of thepandemic, people are consuming
more gasoline.jorge: tomorrow is the last day
to pay taxes.are there benefits for some
people, among them latinofamilies?
what do you know about that?>> the best thing is to get the
tax credits, particularly childtax credits.
that credit will benefit alllatino families as long as they
have a social security number ortaxpayer i.d..
especially if they get that as adirect deposit.
that $250 for children over theage of six or $300 under the age
of six will help.jorge: is this a good time to
find a new job?>> yes.
but you have got to look for it.you as an employee have more
options because what employersare looking for now is people
who want to work.if you are looking for work, you
are going to get better pay.jorge: thank you, carlos.
>> it is always a pleasure.jorge: the government expanded
its child tax credits because ofthe coronavirus.
find out how much you could getvisiting univision.com/credito.
we have all heard olga tañónsing, but we bet you have
never heard her sing♪
jorge: we have the best examplethat puerto rican singer oga on
is not afraid of change.shes always had an interest in
mexican regional music.thank you for being on the show.
>> thank you.it is a pleasure to greet you
after a long time of seeing you.jorge: at least we are speaking
in a virtual way.im listening to your most
recent song.it is what most people call
ranchero music.you did what scares you.
>> 27 years ago, i was onveronica castros show in
mexico.it was the first time i sang
with a marriott achi.it is a different magic.
from that point forward, i didit in a more personal way.
jorge: what is it about?reinventing yourself, not
falling behind?what is the purpose?
why do this?>> because i love singing.
why do you ask me that question?jorge: i know you performed in
other musical genres.i have never heard you sing
mexican regional music.>> yes, what is going on is my
essence has always beenbalanced.
my first musical opportunity wasperforming marenge.
i did not have options.from that point forward, i made
a career in tropical music.that was incredible because my
whole life, what i really likedwas ballolads.
my mom loved ranchero andromantic music.
i wanted to do it.jorge: i heard an interview in
which you said you were notwilling to continue singing for
the rest of your life.i did not understand that.
are you considering retiring?>> what is going on is i do not
want to be washed up when iretire.
right?when i do not have that ease or
that flexibility on the stage,i, in all honesty, will be
honest with myself.it is like when children ask if
they did something welcome andyou say, well, i cannot be cruel
to you, you did not do a goodjob.
i think if i see myselfperformed, the day i do not feel
i have the capacity to do so, iwill say goodbye and do so
happily and with pride becausethere are other new generations
coming in.jorge: we have spoken for many
years.i have noticed with many
performers, including you, thatare now willing to save
political things -- say poeticalthings that before they may have
kept to themselves.im thinking of feminists in
puerto rico and yourparticipation in the grammys.
do you think your platform,which is often broader than many
politicians, is forcing you totalk about things you normally
would not?>> i dont feel i am being
forced to.i think it is my duty as a
woman.i think this hurts a lot of
mothers.i have also got to say that any
mother who has lost a child thisway, it has been a terrible
pain.jorge: and do you feel this is
something that needs to betalked about more?
i hear these voices strongerthan before.
>> i know that we wont be ableto get back time, but we need to
keep talking about this,especially when politics
continues talking but there areno actions.
it is one thing to take to thestreets and say yes, we are
doing this, but they need toshow they are doing something.
this case of the last two womenin puerto rico, one of them had
already gone to court, one ofthem had already told the judge,
and she turned her away.jorge: that is incredible.
olga, it is great to talk toyou.
i hope i can see you in personsoon.
>> yes, it was a pleasure asalways.
blessings.jorge: we began the show talking
about trumps big lie and we endwith césar muñoz dedicating a
song to him.>> ♪ondemand.com.
follow us on facebook,instagram, and twitter.
until next week, "al punto.">> ♪